Hey, Green Junkie!
On this episode I am honored to have Lindsaya VanDeusen, on the podcast, to chat with me about hair dye. We talk about the formulas, the chemistry, the toxicity and she answers the biggest question of “Can we actually dye our hair safely?”
Lindsaya is breaking it all down for us today and using her extensive knowledge and experience behind the chair and in the hair care industry to lead us to make better choices when it comes to taking care of our bodies and our hair.
I learned soooo much in this episode and know you will too.
In this episode we will discuss,
- What’s lurking in your favorite hair dye
- The myth of organic hair dyes
- The “safest” way to dye your hair
- How to work with your stylist to help lower toxin exposure
You’ll discover that and so much more in this episode.
If you love this podcast be sure to leave a review and share a screenshot of this episode to your IG stories. Tag @greenjunkiepodcast so I can shout you out and publicly say thanks.
Thanks for listening and being here.
Your green bestie,
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Produced by: Alecia Harris
Music By: Liz Fohle
TRANSCRIPT FOR EPISODE 36
Stephanie Moram 0:07
Hi, Green Junkie. I'm your host Stephanie Moram and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Lindsaya and we're going to be talking about clean beauty and holistic living today. And I am so excited for this conversation. So Lindsaya is a beauty and wellness strategist and community creator, she passionately empowers humans to amplify the wellness warrior within them, especially those who may be struggling to feel good in their skin, and desire to live a happy, healthy and vibrant life. She is a self proclaimed plant pusher and uses affordable, (which I love) simple and realistic, conscious consumption strategies to help her clients navigate their way through their healing and self love journeys. She believes conscious conversations around these topics puts us back in the driver's seat of our health. If you love learning new ways that you can reduce your impact on the environment, please subscribe to the Green Junkie Podcast on whatever platform you get your podcasts. That way you never miss another green living episode. Hi, Lindsaya, thank you so much for being here. I am so excited to speak with you and have this conversation with you today. So first, I would love for you to tell the audience a little bit about yourself, your family and how you got started on this holistic way of living.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 1:40
Oh, my goodness, well, I'm so excited. And hello to all your freaking amazing listeners. The fact that you have a podcast on this topic and so many fans just literally warms my soul because it means that we are in this movement together. And I'm Lindsaya as you shared I, I am many things. And I love all of them. I'm a wife and a mother to two beautiful babies, they are no longer babies almost once almost a full adult 17 and 11. And I have been in the beauty industry for two decades, although I swear I'm only 28. And, and I started in the beauty industry real real truth is that I went into beauty school for a couple of key reasons they were very strategic. And if you know me, you understand my high D in terms of like having a reason why and so I really wanted to have my beauty license because I grew up my my grandma was an instructor my entire childhood my whole life. And she would take me when I was lucky enough on the weekends and I would get treated like a princess. And I always felt so beautiful in the presence of all those women, doting on me and doing my hair and curling it and all the fun things. And I loved watching my grandma inspire people to learn. And so I wanted to be able to follow in her footsteps. I wanted to be able to work in college but not in a bar have like a very normal job and not have to stay up late. And I also had a deep craving to feel good about myself. And that's because at that point, I had a childhood and adolescent life I have a lot of illness, eczema, acne, migraines, depression, food sensitivities, chronic bronchitis, just to name a few. I was overweight, and I hated the way that I looked. I was later diagnosed with body dysmorphia. And so when I thought about going to beauty school, all I hoped is that a I'd be able to figure out how I could finally feel beautiful, and hoped to help others feel the same way. And so that's where I started. And then on that journe – so I launched into the beauty world without any holistic living at all, quite, quite frankly, the exact opposite. And then it was the subsequent and beautiful blessing of becoming pregnant with my oldest who is going to be 18 just around the corner and she's heading off to college and just a few short months. And it was in that moment where we learned that she that I was going, you know where I learned really that she was going to be a girl. And I had this epiphany that I did not want to hand down my baggage to the next generation. And so that's where I began my learning. I went to a free health talk by a naturopath and chiropractor. I walked out of there feeling like everything I'd ever learned was a lie and that I had no idea how I was going to do all that was required to help me heal. But I knew that if I just kept doing one small action after another, it would all compounds become something great. And that's where the Wellness Warrior Within was born for me. And that is how I have continued to move forward and why I'm so inspired to share holistic living
Stephanie Moram 4:59
That's awesome. I love hearing your story. And I think it every time I speak to somebody, I don't know whether it's green living, whether it's like, you know, food health, there's always I feel like it's always centered like that, like light bulb starts going off when you start having kids. Like the light bulb, like for me, it was the same thing I got pregnant was like, whoa, okay, what are these products that I'm being marketed? Why do I need them? Why is organic cotton better? Why should I not be using this deodorant versus that deodorant? Why should I eat this food versus that food? Why is there you know, if you eat meat, why is grass fed better than like conventional meat? Why is maybe eating a plant based diet, all those things came about when I was pregnant, and then that's all my kids know, now. And it's just not funny in the hallway. But just like interesting that a lot of women that I speak to whether it's on the podcast, or just in conversations, it's always when I had my kids or when my kids were three years old, or when I was pregnant with my kids. And it's that's like that light bulb moment when you realize it's not just about me anymore, right? It's about these tiny little humans that I am going to raise. Hopefully, it will be awesome humans. So I just love your story where you're just like, Yeah, I had kids, and I needed to figure this out, and not pass my trauma down to, you know, start, not pass my trauma down to the next generation and really work on myself. So thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. And what I would love to talk to you about today, because you're such an expert in that domain is clean beauty. We can definitely touch on like as a global like topic, but I wanted to talk a little bit about hair dye. Because as women, a lot of women dye their hair, a lot of women dye their hair when gray start coming in, and white hair starts coming in. Some girls are dyeing their hair at young ages. And I often wonder if people actually know what's in hair dye, I'm not going to claim to be an expert in the hair dye industry at all. But I would love to have that conversation around hair dye and what women and you know, young women and even teenagers kind of need to look for when they're picking up their hair dye, whether it's blonde hair, dark hair, colorful hair, like blue and green. So, yeah, that's kind of what I wanted to discuss with you. And you know, we can just jump right into, like All Things Hair dye. And so I guess my question for you is like, what is what should we be looking for when we're choosing our hair dye?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 7:33
What a question and and I want to thank you I want to thank you because so often in the Green Movement, you know, and even in my programs in my coaching and I'm sure same can be said for you is that we so often tackle lifestyle and home type toxicity, right? Well, we'll talk about all the other things but so often and I'll even find like I've been in programs myself and we'll talk about body washes and hair sprays and you know in makeup and yet we kind of all leave the the hair conversation alone. The reality is, most of us are like well, it doesn't really matter it has to get done. So I appreciate you bringing this forth because I do think that the reality is that there's a lot of misinformation there's a lot of misinformation not only for those that are looking to be served but also by service professionals by those licensed stylist and it's because the truth is, is there isn't any education around the toxicity of chemicals included in any of our products through our schooling. And so you that this is the equivalent of going to a doctor and expecting them to have you know, had any training in nutrition and especially micro nutrition, a cardiologist 80,000 hours of training to become a cardiologist zero hours spent on nutrition. That's a true fact. And so, you know,
Stephanie Moram 8:59
Yes it's like mind blowing to me that like mind blowing doctor, a little bit off topic, but you go to a doctor and when you're not feeling well you might have some sort of disease or whatever it is. And it's never Hey, maybe you should stop eating McDonald's seven days a week you know what I mean? Like that's not part of the conversation with like, blows my mind I hear so many people that you know have have had cancer and you know, are in remission and the conversation of nutrition doesn't ever crossed anyone's lips and I'm like, very interesting. Anyways, on to the next one, but I just find it interesting.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 9:34
It's it's both interesting and heartbreaking. I mean, I fortunately had had the experience of you know, going with my mom to chemo and they were handing out cookies and milk shakes there. So yeah, don't get me started but that's a whole other rabbit hole. But back to another episode on that. Another episode but But back to the hair. The reality is that that analogy is to really bring awareness to the fact that we have to look at What we're asking of our expert and what they're actually an expert in, right. And so a hairstylist is not an expert in holistic living, or in chemical composition, I happened to be because, you know, 15 years ago, I became, I began as an educator for a brand that I've had a beautiful trajectory, and have been very blessed in the way I've moved through this company. But it was my desire to learn more where that company taught me about the like, really what matters. And not only from a way of how they work, but even from beyond the scope of what they necessarily were accomplishing, but setting goals for continued advancement towards more more holistic care and more holistic products. So to me that spoke volumes, the truth of it, and the transparency is really important. So I want to start I start every single conversation, I've taught 1000s of classes over the last 15 years around hair, and I start every conversation when we're talking about chemicals with this, there is no such thing as organic hair color. And it's a misconception everyone in their brother likes to believe exists. But it's not an even if even if you see it in the name, it is not organic is actually impossible to have permanent hair color. In a traditional form that's organic, the only organic matter that we use to color hair, and stylists don't use it. It's called henna. And so henna can be organic. However, the vast majority on the market is anything but and you have to really look at sourcing because it can be super detrimental, because it's a raw material on how it's harvested from the ground. So henna is the only time you get to stand in a space in which you may change the color of your hair going darker, never lighter, and not use the chemical that cannot be determined or claimed to be organic. And so we know that organic products have to be able to contain organic ingredients. And at a high volume. And with hair color, you can't have enough of the quantity of the products to be organic to be deemed organic. And so that's where I like to start first. Because once we have that clarity, then we know no matter what we're talking about, we are not talking about organic products. And no matter what we're talking about, we're talking about some chemical exposure. And so.,
Stephanie Moram 12:20
I just had one question. So you talked about permanent hair dye. So that must Is there a different conversation about non permanent hair dye like within when it comes to stuff like this?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 12:29
Nope, there's no difference at all excluding so permanent semi permanent, demi permanent, bleaches lighteners, a lot of people will call so we teach in the industry, you only bleach your toilet and your clothes, you don't bleach hair, so we call them lighteners. But for a lot of consumers, that actually means that they think they're not getting bleach on their hair, it's a fallacy. If your hair is going lighter, you're using one of two things, you're either using a high lift tint, or you're using a bleach, it's there is no other way to do it. So a lot of a lot of misconception around that. And, and so all of them fall under the umbrella of they cannot be organic products. Right?
Stephanie Moram 13:07
And I totally agree. Like I think people assume okay, because it's written organic on something that is organic, right when it comes to everything, not just hair dye. And I think it's so important that you mentioned that. Because I mean, I 100% agree, I'm like I dye my hair, I highlight my hair and never once did I think that there wasn't something in it that wasn't perfect. So you can't make a perfect hair dye.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 13:33
Exactly, you can't. The reality is there are some key chemical components that the chemical reaction is needed to break the melanocyte down and allow for it to be dissolved and removed from the hair. And there's also the same thing, you're still shifting melanocytes when you are adding color into the hair because you have to displace what is there so you can present what you want. And so the only time that isn't happening, of course is where you have something semi or demi permanent, meaning that it washes off over time. Right. So when I talk to people around categories of hair color in consideration to holistic lifestyle, the truth of the matter is, is if you live in the semi permanent or demi permanent arena, you will have typically less chemical exposure. It's not always the case because unfortunately there are a lot of companies that do some really sour things because they've been bought out by some really large conglomerates and so they do what is beneficial for the stakeholders not for the person receiving the service. But the reality is those will typically get you into a safer range because you're not permanently changing the hair so you're not going as deep into the hair structure meaning that you don't need as much or the same types of chemicals to be able to achieve that. So this may look like in service style would be if you have white or what many women reference as gray hair even though there's no such thing gray doesn't exist in the world of hair color. But the when you have white hair, this would be something like if you wanted to blend it. So a high concentration of it gone, but not full coverage typically, and or adding in, you know, changing by going darker or adding a reflection to your hair but not going lighter. So that is that's the area where you can play if you want to. I'm doing air quotes, but I know you all can't see me if you wanted to play this safest in the playground. And then I'm going to go one step further. So now that you know, semi or demi permanent, the next thing is, who are you choosing? And I'm not talking about your hairstylist, maybe it's Who are they choosing? But who are you choosing to have on your hair. And so even if you already have a stylist, knowing what brand they use, going and doing your own reading about the brand is going to allow you to really hone in on okay, maybe I've chosen a semi or demi permanent service. But is the brand respecting the holistic viewpoints that I have or sustainability practices that are really important to me?
Stephanie Moram 16:07
Are you able to say what the difference is between semi and demi?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 16:11
Yeah, absolutely semi is something that it lives on, like the outermost part of the hair. Typically, when people get their hair highlights or a bleaching tone, it's the toner it will wash off typically in four to six five to eight shampoos, it's not super long lasting, it lasts longer on blonde hair, because of the porosity of it. So what kind of stains if you will, that's why someone who gets highlights a toner will last longer a semi permanent will last longer than if you were to put it on someone whose hair had not been previously treated. And then a demi permanent will actually go a little bit deeper into what we call the cuticle of your hair, which just like your nail has a cuticle your hair is covered in a cuticle as well. And it will print it that penetrate slightly inside the scales of the cuticle, allowing for more longevity or more coverage. So a demi permanent can give you white blending, it will have longer lasting results, you know, it can be four to eight weeks really truly no line of damage typically because it will wash out gently. So it's a really nice service for someone who wants hair that is kind of you know, it may not even be recognizable, that they're doing anything. So really great for those that want to stay close to their natural, or in both of them. A semi endemic can only stay on the same shade and change the hue or the reflection or go darker, neither one of those will be able to lighten you. That makes sense.
Stephanie Moram 17:42
Perfect. So I think the next category would be permanent hair color, right? Right like that those are the safest, but the truth is, is a lot of people want permanent color because they want all of their white hair gone. Or they want to go lighter. They don't you know they want to be lighter than their natural shade. And they want to do anyone that has dark hair. Sorry to cut you off someone who has dark hair, and they make it they put like blonde in it. They want to want they're definitely doing permanent.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 18:12
Yep, you can. No lightening of your hair is is temporary. As soon as you take the color out. It's just like, if you took any wall in your house, and you took a paintbrush and you grabbed up any color paint that wasn't matching the wall and you just put that paint brush right up that wall. That's exactly what happens the moment you put permanent on.
Stephanie Moram 18:31
Okay. Yep. Got it.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 18:33
And so, yeah, no, and so permanent, permanent hair color can light in, typically up to four to five shades, there are these tools within our coloring resources, typically called high lifts. And that's where you'll get extra lightning, you get extra lightning because they have a higher concentration of ammonia, or an ammonia replacement, which is we're gonna get into that because we're in permanent color. And so I want to talk about this because this is the next place most people go, they'll say, oh, I don't want ammonia or I don't want any a or ammonia free or mono mono ethanolamine or there's a lot of words for it. Okay, but this is what I love to share with people. Hair color is chemistry. And so just like that, can you know that can prod project when you're in the second grade or third grade that you put baking soda and vinegar vinegar together and you get a chemical reaction and that that erupted into a volcano. I hope most people can relate to that science project at some point in their life. The reality is the baking soda will do nothing alone and the vinegar will do nothing alone but when you bring them together, that's where you get the reaction. Same thing is true about hair color. It requires an alkalizer the alkalizer has to be either ammonia or non ammonia of replacement. There are many brands do this differently but those are the only two ways there is no other method. So they work, they're actually really sisters of each other in terms of, you know how they function, obviously, because they're replacing one another, but the way that they dissipate, and the way that they act on the hair can have some can have some small differences. And so a big misconception I get is that one or the other is necessarily safer. You know, I think that if you have an ammonia sensitivity, then you are pointed in the direction of not using something with ammonia, especially because it gases, right ammonia is a gas, so we'll be able to, it's more fragrant, it can be a little bit more irritating to the eyes, and things like that. But it has to be it has to be that worse something else. So if it's in the color, it's not as much about if it's in the color, it's how much of it is in the color. So there are brands that part of their performance, the reason why they get the results they do is they put a lot of ammonia in. And that produces a particular result. The opposite to be said about the non ammoniated, we call it we have an ethanolamine blend in our brand. So multiple facets of ethanol amines bridge together to create the least sensitizing version that still obviously allows for the chemical reaction. And that simply the reason that many people choose that one is maybe they have a sensitivity to ammonia, or they prefer an odorless experience. The difference is it doesn't dissipate automatically. So ammonia will escape it. Like I said, it's a gas. So it goes into the environment, and then it dissipates in it, you know, ammonia is minimized. The reality is that there's still that chemical reaction, but it's trapped within the product. And so with an ethanolamine, it's essential that the practitioner knows how to do a manual release of that. So we really have to use our hands and removing the excess from the hair and scalp and the cleansing service, or you're going home with an extended exposure to an alkalizer and an mea replacement. So again, neither one of them are health products, both of them can be used in concentrations that are harmful. And both of them can be comprised of better quality versions and lower percentages, allowing for the performance and reducing the toxicity.
Stephanie Moram 22:25
Okay, I'm learning so much myself, so and so when you're saying something doesn't contain ammonia, but it's like the ammonia replacement, right? So like, what, what what is the purpose, so the purpose of having ammonia in your products is to create that chemical reaction so you can have color in your hair?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 22:43
Yeah, so the, the alkalizer, or the ammonia native product is, for those that are familiar with the pH scale, we have an acid side, neutrals right in the middle, it's approximately water or would be ideal water, most people's water isn't neutral, but anyways, and then and then we have our alkaline side of our pH scale. And so what is important to do in the hair coloring process is to make the hair more alkaline, because hair is about a 4.5 to a 5.5 on the pH scale. So that puts it on the acid side. And that means that's why a lot of times you'll hear don't wash your hair too much or don't use hot water because it can rinse out your color because your hair exist at a 4.5 to a 5.5. And I just shared just a few seconds ago that water is around a seven. And so what you're doing is you're slightly opening that cuticle. And we know that because color fades. But we also know that because it happens to our skin and our skin and our hair and our nails, they're all made up the same thing. And so hot water, and just water alone opens up our pores. And this is why we do extraction after the shower. It's not just the steam, it's also the fact that the pH of the water has dilated our skin and so a ammonia or ammonia replacement is even more alkaline than water sitting much closer to around a pH of 10. And so what that what that chemical does is it allows for our hair and our cubicle to be dilated so that all that is happening whether we are delivering color or removing color can work just like those extractions on our face after jumping out of a shower.
Stephanie Moram 24:26
Got it. Gonna have to listen really listen to my own podcast episode again. And so when it comes to like see bleaches and stuff like that, like people are putting bleach, like in the hair, like whatever the cream that they use, but it's a bleach and that's to make their hair more blonde, right or white or whatever that is.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 24:48
Stephanie Moram 24:49
And can you use something else instead of bleach?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 24:52
No, no, you well, two things. So I shared that color, like alkalis there's color lives you know close Denine and 10 Typically we're talking permanent color right now, a demo or semi typically will have a lower pH more lower for the semi than the DMI. Generally speaking, not always, some brands are catastrophic to the hair in my opinion when we look at the pH of their products, but when you have reputable, reputable brands that really take into consideration and in for you know, for me, our brand it our whole consideration is maintaining the integrity of the hair, not about repairing it. If we train people how to appropriately diagnose a stress and service people then we don't have to do so much repairing we can simply do maintaining and prevention. But in terms of bleach, when you are lightening, it is going to be either a color, so a permanent hair color that's going to be more alkaline meaning lives closer to a traditional bleach on that alkalinity scale. Or you have to use a bleach or Lightner is what some stylists will reference. It's the same thing. It's just a much more customer forward facing friendly term to call it lightener rather than bleach because bleach has gotten a really bad rap in the world because of the misuse of it as well like a lot of hair damage, but you cannot remove the color from someone's hair without one of those two services or products. And both of those products are going to have more alkalinity or higher alkalinity than a professional color.
Stephanie Moram 26:38
So someone with blonde hair or like not as blonde and they want to put like highlights. I know I know I think I understand low lights and highlights but don't want to put highlights in their hair to make it blonder but it's semi and they're not using permanent again it has to be bleach, right or the other stuff that can be used like do people use peroxide.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 27:00
So Peroxide – Hydrogen Peroxide by itself what have you do you remember Eminem the rapper and when he looked like a Q tip it was kind of yellow. Yeah. So hydrogen peroxide is the lightning component in hair color. So even if you took the brown bottle out of your you know your home pharmacy with an F of course, but if you take it out of your home pharmacy and you were to put that on a piece of cloth, you know, any piece of cloth or even your hair went out into the sun, let it dry, you would get some lightning so that's where the lightning comes from. But if you're getting highlights, it is always a bleach or a high lift, always a bleach or high lift. There is no semi permanent there's no temporary bleach. Once you remove the color it has been removed it will not grow back it doesn't start to show up in the hair again. And to lighten the hair you recall it is required to have more alkalinity because that is what allows for the active oxygen and the hydrogen peroxide to lighten the hair more.
Stephanie Moram 28:05
Okay so if somebody has light hair has dark hair and they want to get lighter or they have light here and they want to get a darker is that are more chemicals being used because it's so much more drastic than if say someone had like brown hair and they want it to go darker or they have already have light hair and they just wanted a bit lighter is it I'm gonna say better in quotations. I guess I don't really sure but is it better like are better ingredients used and is it safer.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 28:32
So the way that I like to categorize for easy for it to be easy to understand is that in hair color and in bleach, you're going to be required to use chemicals. If you are looking for something that is cleaner, first thing is like of course look for a better brand but second that when you're if that's really your objective, then going lighter is not an option. And you're going to use something that is a semi or demi permanent, not a permanent color. If you were looking for the most holistic hair, but I mean I built my business off holistic hair and the reality is it only works if you like how you look at the end right and so if we can only give you white blending and you don't want any white hair or if you've always loved having some dimension in your hair and you want to have like add some light pieces, or if you want to wear a fashion shade and you're not naturally blonde and even if you're naturally blonde, we still need the light in your hair because we need we need to put the lightener on to make I mean we don't need to we can do a stain but you'll get more longevity and more vibrancy if we do even a soft application of lightener on blonde hair so that we can allow for that stain to have a little bit more grip if you will to that cuticle and so the semi / demi permanenent world is where you live staying the same shade or going darker if being holistic is your number one priority. And then if the number one priority is the effect you want on your hair, like how you want to look, then we consult and figure out what are the safest products? What are the what's the most holistic way that we could achieve that look within the range of products, everything from bleachers to semi permanent available.
Stephanie Moram 30:26
Okay, so in a nutshell, semi and demi are a better option if you're truly looking for cleaner or more holistic side of things. And if you are looking for the effect more than the ingredients doing permanent is the root and then looking with semi permanent, what would be the best option.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 30:46
Yep, and with all of them. So I say, if you're going for holistic, your key number one, then you can choose, of course, semi or demi, but the next step that every consumer, really, really will serve themselves by becoming the advocate here is that you may have this, I'm pulled out, you know, have this design, I'm holistic, and I'm going to seek out a demi or semi and I'm going to stay the same shade or go darker, I'm only going to blend white hair. But the next important question that we really owe to ourselves to become informed about is with which brand, because what many people don't know is, and I'm not going to name them, because I'm not a person who likes to bash other brands. But the reality is that many of the brands that you will see on your television, the ads pushed to you on, you know, on your through your search engine, or that you see when flipping through magazines, they're owned by major, like food manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies. And I promise is in complete opposition. So I always tell people, like, the next step after knowing what you want is if you know who you're gonna go to ask them what they use, ask your stylists, what they use, and then type in your own little search engine. You know, who owns that company. And if it comes up as Nestle, I'm gonna just tell you, that it's let's not use that one. Yeah, it's a really good idea to find someone who uses a different brand or invite your stylist or and I always say don't speak through the stylist if they work in a salon speak to the salon owner or manager because the stylist doesn't get to choose if they're a sweet stylists like an independent and you can speak directly to them. But the reality is that no matter what if it's if it's owned by Nestle, it's not good for us. And so it would be a great opportunity to either find a new stylist or invite them to possibly consider even if it is bringing in a product only for you. And I will tell you that there are a lot of stylists that will happily bring in and store your color if you're not one who changes all the time. So this works really well for someone who's always getting the same color. They typically like you know, and it's a great, great, great idea. And usually if there is any price difference, they simply pass it off to you and you guys, it's like a couple bucks, we're talking, you know, five to $10. Typically for your own product, it's so worth it.
Stephanie Moram 33:11
What I know we've been talking about using the brand that you love, I would love for you to tell the listeners like what is the brand that you represent and that you feel is a good brand that you like, recommend and that you work with?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 33:24
Oh my gosh, well, I would love to. I have the great honor of representing here in the United States came in and they are from San Justino, Italy. They were created in 1959 by a husband and a wife. And the wife was a hairstylist and the husband was a sales rep in the beauty industry. And they saw a need for a product that had a higher level of integrity in the way that it was sourced the way that it was manufactured the way that it was distributed and the support of education that came along with it. And so that's where they launched into our color brand. And they created it. It's still family run and owned today. We are not a small company by any stretch of the imagination last year I think was a $60 million year in over 52 countries. So we're absolutely successful in every market where we go, but we are more boutique based. We're not going to take the big ads out we're not doing sponsored ads, with famous people we are hitting the grounds ensuring that our loved stylist feel supported and informed around why these products support them in business, support the holistic lifestyle. Because again, I care a lot about my clients, but I'm well and I don't work behind the chair anymore. I retired five years ago, and I cared a lot about them. But the reality is I chose better products for me because I would you know I see them once every four to six weeks. In a day I'd see six to 12 clients and so it was way more about my health and so some of the things that are really amazing about Cayman is that they are not only family owned, so we have a voice when something doesn't go right. It's not like you're a number people send that direct feedback to our email and it goes directly to the brand. And I've watched them create products based on requests and suggestions directly from our market. And so we have their ear, they really do care. They are very sustainable in their business practice, we have our own organic farm on our compound in some just, you know, Italy, it's beautiful, I've had the great luxury of going many times. And so our patented complexes are grown in organic farming right in those farms, literally steps from our research and development lab, everything is done in house. And so we don't outsource any of our, our r&d or any of our manufacturing, we do it so that we can ensure that we can uphold all of our ISO certifications, you can check this out by going to Cayman ke mo n.com. You can read all about them. But it's so important. Because how we treat the environment, the water that we use, the way that we farm, these things all make an impact not only in the final product, but an impact in the environment. And we do a lot to also offset our carbon emissions, we have huge initiatives towards the future and how we intend to show up in relationship to our sustainability practices. And it's just it really is, in addition to that, there's all the fashion and the cuts and the colors and varieties, but really, truly the heartbeat of the company for me. And the reason why I work in the beauty industry is because I know that these products can make a positive impact and bring this industry full circle and really bring us back to being able to create beauty without hurting ourselves or doing further harm. Like so many of the products that we have, we have adapted over the years.
Stephanie Moram 36:49
Right. And when we were briefly talking before, and you'd said that the way that they work is they have like a wide array of like when it comes to dyes, let's say that's what we're talking about, that somebody might want the cleanest of the cleans that you could possibly get, like, it's not perfect, because we can't go perfect, but it's a cleanest that you want. You have that but then you also have an array of like, okay, well, it's not the cleanest, but it's still good. You know what I mean? And I liked that they kind of offer that, because then the consumer can decide what it is that fits best for them.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 37:23
100% And so we call that systems in our world, so we have what we call.
Stephanie Moram 39:57
Right and that's what I like and I But anything like was it, whether it's like makeup or like hair dye or even like, the clothing that you're buying, like, I just always like recommend to people like you make the decision, right? You get to decide and power, like literally power like is knowledge is powerful, you know, like, so if you want to dye your hair and you know, there's bleach in it, and there's all these chemicals in it, and you decide to keep using it, then you made that decision with the information that you had, right? So I just love that they, you know, kind of lay everything out for you. And they're like, and you get to decide now, what fits your lifestyle, and how far you want to go on the spectrum of say, toxic chemicals. You know what I mean? Like that you land on that spectrum. So I appreciate that. And now we're talking about ingredients. I know, you don't want to like, list all the ingredients that are horrible, and you should totally avoid. But is there anything like when it comes to hair dye, like one ingredient that you've just like, got you just unclear that or you just believe that the person that is getting their hair dyed that the consumer makes that decision and they decide this is like I don't want this ingredient on my body?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 41:12
Yeah, so to me, it's really about a so in our company, we teach our we teach our educators to teach salon professionals how to teach their clients to read the box, because in today's world and with all the guts, sensitivities and allergies, and more, the reality is like to take the ownership on ourselves, I'll carry a box, in the ingredients, write out to someone and say, Please, like you evaluate this and make sure there's nothing that you've seen on any of your tests. But when it comes to evaluating ingredients for me, to me, the things that are really important, are well, and it also depends on like which service you're getting, which ingredients I would look for. But for me, the one thing I would say, and this isn't color based, but I'm gonna go there because we're on hair, and it's one of the most toxic that actually shows up in haircare treatments, which is formaldehyde, especially with all the smoothing services. So I wanted to throw that in there because that really is like I almost pointing people towards that more than being you know, concerned about hair color. And then with hair color, when you're looking for which ingredients that you really don't want to use, it does come down to preference and sensitivity, some people don't want to use ammonia, so that would put you on our yellow color system. Some people don't want to use the alternative. Some people don't want to use PPD, which is a petroleum derivative that is often used in mascaras and lip stains and all of that that we know doesn't have a great impact on the health. And so people want a PPD free color, which is paraphernalia and dye Amin, some people will want or desire a resorcinol free hair color. That's another thing that's used in hair dyes to help with the intensity and deposit. And so some people will have a sensitivity, unknown sensitivity or a request to not have a product with that in it. And then really it goes back to you know if if the the consideration around or the concern, I should say if the concern is chemical load, then i To me it's what's your objective? What's your number one most important thing? If the number one most important thing is to reduce toxic exposure, then we're going to talk about what does your desired and what do you want to look like. And again, how do we achieve that in the least toxic way. Because sometimes the conversation if you're if your number one priority is holistic, then possibly we need to re evaluate what it is you're looking for. The other things to look for, you know, I do look for dermatologist tested or recommended that something great to see with in a brand. Um, we have that. And then the you know, looking for organic included ingredients. So looking for more botanicals on the on the list is going to also help. And then Stephanie, I don't want to jump too far forward. But I love to tell people the other thing is like, if you're getting in the color, you're finding the best brand, the one that aligns with you, you have chosen the services that align with both the look you want and also the least toxic then the the next thing really to consider is what are you doing to prep and what are you doing after to reduce your toxic exposure because you can, you know, you can detox this exposure. It's not the only thing you'll come up against in a day. And so I remind people that we're way more in power than we think and it doesn't mean you can't get your hair done because most women are getting it done. Like I said every four to six weeks may 8 And then now with you know if you don't have any weight and with all the hand painting, it can be four to six months. And so you know I remind women that although it may not be perfect and we may not be able to get products that are all the Ingres medians match our highest desire by looking at them and being sure we are in the right system. The truth of the matter is, is that we can enact some holistic self care practices so that if we, if and when we are exposed while you know obtaining the objective we want on our hair, then we can mitigate that and get back to feeling really great, and reducing any impact that may we may have experienced.
Stephanie Moram 45:25
And do you have any quick recommendations, like if someone's getting their hair done, like anything that they can do daily to reduce that exposure?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 45:35
Yeah, so I'm a big fan of juicing of all sorts. So the more the more plants the better. Smoothies, smoothies work to because anytime you break the cell wall, I actually just did a tic tac about this. Anytime you break the cell wall of a plant, you enhance absorption. So eating lots of plants before, during after that's going to help because you're going to open up your Pathways, you're going to flush through all your detox pathways. A sauna is a really great thing, just not immediately after, you want to wait until you've washed your hair. Typically, if you've done color, just so you don't get too hot around the skin and before. So I always tell people Asana after 48 hours, is an infrared sauna, by the way, is a great detoxing tool. I love to use a magnesium bath. So you can do that as well. Another great way to get your, you know, your detox pathways on for those that are open to it. Coffee enemas are fantastic, or to also help us with our liver detox, which can continue to open that pathway and allow for more of those toxins to move through more quickly. So those are just a few things that I suggest.
Stephanie Moram 46:44
Drink lots of water.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 46:45
Stephanie Moram 46:46
That's so you go pee?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 46:49
Yes. And clean water, right? Like, let's not use plastic bottle water and, and tap water. Let's use some kind of, you know, for me, it's a Berkey. But for other people, they're there, they may have another source but something that's reverse osmosis or better in my opinion, so that we can use cleaner water. But yeah, those are the things that will help carry you through your service. And give you the confidence that you've picked the best brand. You're you know, your practitioner or your stylist, they fully understand your desire, and they're doing it in the least toxic way. And then you're controlling what you can with how do you show up to that appointment, you know, prepared and your health? And then how do you continue caring for your health to ensure that you move past this quickly?
Stephanie Moram 47:30
No, and it's just you know, comes back from the beginning, like just empowering consumers to make the best choices for them. Like someone might want to do a coffee enema, someone might. You know, it's just what works best for you What hair dye is best for you. I've just loved this conversation. Because, you know, I do highlight my hair, I have put pink in my hair many times. I don't do it often. Because I don't want to, like always be in the salon. But I just love this conversation because I like you said at the beginning, some people don't think about it, right? They think about the food that they eat, they might think about the toxins around them, you know, like maybe in their furniture and their cleaning products, but then they often forget about the hair dye. And again, you know, you often people say you know, the 2080 rule or the 1090 rule, whatever rule you have, the hair dye might fall into it, but it's still empowering to know that, hey, when I do dye my hair, these chemicals are there and what can I do to lower the impact on my body when I do decide to dye my hair?
Lindsaya VanDeusen 48:33
So yeah, me I add one thing that yeah, for sure. I love that. And so in that empowerment. It also gives us the awareness that if we go in to our stylist, right, if we go and have that conversation with our stylist, and we are informed and and if they start to have the conversation about oh yeah, I can color your hair organically. Or I can do that without chemicals. Or I can do that without bleach, then we now realize with no judgment towards that person that can be a lovely person and super talented, super talented. But we now recognize that that person cannot be or should not be our trusted expert on toxicity, right. And so at that point, once you have that awareness, it doesn't mean you can't continue to stay with that amazing stylist. It simply means that we no longer allowed them to be the one who determines if the holistic care that or if the the hair services we're getting are the most holistic that could be possible.
Stephanie Moram 49:37
100% I totally agree with that. So I would love for you to tell everybody where they can find you on social media. I know you're hanging out on Instagram and you have a website so let everyone know where they can find you. And I will also have it all posted in the show notes. For those that are listening and do not have a pen and paper you can just get all of Lindsay's information, but I'd love for you to tell everybody.
Lindsaya VanDeusen 49:57
Oh thanks so much. Well So I really beauty and wellness strategist as you introduce really is the term I use because it best encompasses what it is that I bring forth in this world. And so if you're looking for me in the beauty world, you're going to be able to find me most conveniently at better beauty collective.com. Or you can find me on social, there's an underscore before but even if you type it in, it shows up so on Instagram better beauty collective, and on clubhouse, we have monthly conversations around this. And we have conversations that 100% Invite in consumers of the beauty services as well. And if you are looking for me in the health in that strategy, or what I call wellness warrior world, then you'll find me at that by name. My name is aya.com or Lindsey underscore calm on Instagram. But again, if you type lens, Aya and I will populate. And I am so excited to connect to anyone that has any further questions. And if you like, I just want to offer this to your listeners. I'm happy to connect with your stylist as well. And so so often, it can be challenging to play the game of telephone because there are particular words. And even here I found myself really striving to remember that I'm speaking not to professionals is that too I'm typically teaching. And so sometimes that conversation is best had from peer to peer. And so please know I am a resource. I am not here to push them into anything, but I will happily answer any questions, or be a guide for them along the way of helping them in their holistic journey, which of course would help you in your holistic journey. So just wanted that to be available for everyone. And thank you so much, Stephanie, for all that you're doing to bring forth, more positivity, more clarity and how we can show up kinder, and how we can take care of our environment. You are a superstar, and I appreciate you so much.
Stephanie Moram 51:49
Oh, thank you so much. And thank you for being here today. I really appreciate you taking the time into your schedule to chat with me for the last little while about hair dyes. I think we need to have another conversation completely about something else because you are a wealth of information. And I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me today. Thank you. You're very welcome. And so you can stay connected with me on instagram as being junkie podcast. And don't forget to subscribe to the green junkie podcast on the platform you're listening on. If you're curious about zero waste, living sustainable fashion, or wondering how to read food labels or cleaning labels or product labels, I've totally got you covered. For direct access to me your green living expert click the link in my show notes where you can ask me questions and get a customized plan on how you can live a greener life. We can hop on a one on one call on Zoom or you can simply ask me your questions via email if that if Zoom is not your thing. I will be your personal #greengoogle and you can pick my brain. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday Green Junkie.